089 – Leading a Mindful Life with Jess Leggatt

Jess is a phenomenal OT and a great friend of mine. She has often explored the road less travelled in this profession and has developed into a clinician with a unique perspective on life, health, wellbeing and OT. In this episode we delve into Jess’s story, her burnout and how she rebuilt herself to be a better, stronger OT. She talks about her use of mindfulness, self-awareness, rest, and yoga among many other things.

I’ve been trying to get Jess on the show for quite some time so I’m super stoked i finally wore her down and helped with her shyness as her story holds within it, so many learning points.

Keep Occupied


Episode Transcript

089 Leading a Mindful Life with Jess Leggatt

00:00:01 – 00:05:20

Hi, welcome to episode number 89 just a quick thing before we get stuck into this episode is if you roll on over to the occupied podcast Instagram page or our Facebook page, you’ll find a little video explaining that we are currently doing a giveaway. We are giving away a copy of Assessments in occupational therapy mental health version three the textbook for nothing. Well not necessarily for nothing. There is a change something that you have to do for it, but jump along their check out that and enter that if that’s something that you think might be of interest to you this episode not a long-term friend an amazing amazing occupational therapist. Just like it. Let’s kick out the jams off.

Yeah very much. So I I’m kind of of the same Theory OT definitely found me when I was in my younger teenage years. I always wanted to get into like a helping profession of some sort. I went through a phase of wanting to be a nurse at some stage and then I really got Keen that I wanted a doctor and then I found out how long it would take to become a doctor and the study that was involved in that so I decided no that wasn’t for me. But yeah, there’s definitely a period of time for a good probably one or two years when I was serious about becoming a doctor and then I got to my later teenage years and my senior high school study that thought I was talking to my sisters friend who was studying occupational therapy at the time and she was telling me about this wonderful profession and what it included. And I was very holistic and it was very based on, you know, the person and very client-oriented. It was all about helping people get back to what they loved, you know doing things that were meaningful and when she started telling me about this profession and at the time she was interested in Pediatrics OT so she was studying a lot of subjects based on that fact, I was very much interested in working with kids as well. So I thought perfect this is a beautiful match up. I’ll be able to help people but it will also be very holistic and I will be able to work with kids need someone to so from there. I basically thought yep, that’s the profession for me and it wasn’t I think I was in like you’re twelve at the time so luckily I’d taken the rat subjects more science-based kind of subjects and yeah knowing that I wanted to get into sort of some sort of tertiary sciency helping profession and then yet when I found out about that when you’re twelve was like God That sounds like the perfect perfect profession for me. So I went in to actually didn’t get straight into OT. I didn’t get a high enough o p but I ended up going into human movement studies and I did a year in human movements and then I was able to go from Human movement studies into occupational therapy from there. And I was very focused on becoming a pediatric OT. I was just going to like there was just no doubt in my mind. That was it. I was going to be pediatric OT there was just no question marks around that Mom took all my subjects in Peds. I I did my practice at the The Children’s Clinic at ukyou. I did a wonderful job at the Royal children’s Children’s Hospital here in Boise and absolutely fell in love with the profession even more and also it’s like yeah kids kids kids all the way home. And when I graduated I also did my honors project with grade grade one kids at the Morris School here in Brisbane working with young indigenous and irrational Torres Strait Islanders at the most school. And basically after I graduated the first job that I went for was a new grad position at the Children’s Hospital. Okay didn’t get it was absolutely devastated like it was like heartbreaking. I think I was bawling my eyes out after I didn’t get job and I just thought oh my God Almighty felt like all my dreams were like ripped away from me in that one instance, but they explained to me at the other place that they had other new grads applying for it and they had the the OT that got it had been out for a year.

00:05:20 – 00:10:18

So she’d been practicing for 12 months in Pediatrics. So that kind of made me feel a little bit better off. I was still absolutely heartbroken and devastated and I thought gosh, what am I going to do? Like real children’s hospital that was kind of like this dream dream aspiration of mine off. So the very next job I went for was in a cute adult working at a hospital. And this was at gravesites Private Hospital here in Boise, and I went for that job and I got the job. So it would and I got the job based on some of my clinical subjects that I’ve done it uni. I’ve done some study in chronic pain management. So that was something that they looked at as you know favorable favorable and I’d also done some splinting so some Hand Therapy work at the Royal here in Brisbane as well. So they looked at and I said, right you’ll fit this accutrol that we have available and I got thrown into that and I became the Dead. Yes, flinching o t and therapy o t at the hospital and I also worked in the the area of chronic pain. So and I never got to work with kids, you know, God well more recently. I mean, I will probably talk about more more about this as we go along. But yeah, I mean, I’ve had a very eclectic occupational therapy career choice pain. I have dabbled in every single little area that you could probably think of an occupational therapy and have sort of jumped around in the hospital system off in different Wards different departments different areas, but more recently funnily Enough full circle. I’m working with young people. So not with Kitty finally finally finally watching twenty years and it’s within youth mental health. So an absolutely adoring it loving it and have certainly found my Niche that I can bring. Everything together including that that passion of working with young people. So that’s awesome. Because I know when we met your working at Green slopes, do you remember do you remember the story of how we met how you connect with me gosh was that we’ve first days was that we I think it was after it was after I remember when I came across to you passed across many years ago back in kind of Rufus days, which is occupational opportunities for refugees asylum-seekers, which is a volunteer-based group of OTAs that did some wonderful things back in the day but Clarissa, I remember that you had either interviewed her or you had she had a choice you you about something and I saw a little article and I saw your name at the bottom of the article and I really liked what you’d have to say about occupation and using occupation as you know, God As the mains to your therapy basically and I remember ready to add a class in your name and I think somehow I jumped on and we connected in that way but that was way back in the day long. Do you remember you have a telling more about the cuz I remember this clearly cuz it still cracks me up cuz I’ve never heard anyone do it since okay. I got this random email from you. Yes never met we never spoke and we’d never anything and I think the opening line was we need to connect or something to that effect. And the story you told me and you written this off a massive email and it was like the very end of it doesn’t sound like me and I hope that doesn’t scare you off kind of thing. But the basic premise was that I’d popped up three times. Yes, apparently had this rule. Like if something happens three times, then you have to like lean into it. So I got this email saying from this completely random lady, I’d never wage Before sending that I popped into a life three times recently and I’m like, okay. Alrighty, this is shrewd that is totally my go-to in life. If something pops up for me like it might be like a random something on social media. It might be a book. It might be someone kind of mentioning it offhandedly, whatever it might be home. Exactly. Yeah. So I think maybe that first time was that little Crossing and part of me reading that article with your name at the bottom and going off like what this guy’s got to say about occupational therapy and I love his passion and enthusiasm and that you know, there’s this real basis of using occupational therapy and then there must have been two jobs and stuff says I don’t remember what those two other instances Were Somehow you cross.

00:10:18 – 00:15:01

My problem, Probably still got the email. I’m pretty probably find it somewhere in The Volt. From we call that would have been might years ago. That was a long time. Yes. Yes. I think I just moved back here to town. I love that you remember that because it dulls me back into the country as well. It’s three times and you’ve got a lean into it. You’ve got to jump on it and go what’s what’s coming up for me that needs to be kind of explored or that I need to connect all and weirdly. I think it was only a few weeks. After that. I was going down to Brisbane for something was in a conference. You’re going to cross reference kind of conference driving past the hospital. Yeah. I was I think I might have been on the Gulf Coast. Actually. I think that might have been the mental health Forum on the Gulf Coast. Yes, which was read about 2012. Mm that must mean 2013 2013 age they caught up in the city for lunch. I think and had a chat and yeah, yeah tested ever since birth. Yes. Yes we have. Oh and we went to the car. What model Workshop remember to? Yep. That was yeah, you’re after all so yeah. Yeah, so a lot less than the last time I think Michael Obama made it out to Australia. We both went and a couple of other people I knew and when it’s dinner after that with a big group of fotis, which was always fun. It’s always a fun thing to do when you suck specially after a day like that. We’ve just had a like a whole day just sort of interest in OT related software rock your world didn’t have to be ideal like anything and then you sort of continued it on in the home is a more informal way, which is what yes, that’s what this podcast has been described as I don’t know if you deny JT Booth. I know Judy both. We actually study together Universe. I never got to work with her after that. I should stay out of the University now, I think so, but she’s she’s described in her description when I first started it was this is the conversations that you have in the bar off. A conference that’s that’s fairly accurate preferably before or after a wine or a beer during during jury. I know I remember that night very fun. I remember that whole day that night very fondly because we connected with some pretty special oties including Michael and voila all the way from the US and thought that was my second time. I got to meet Micheal in Australia, which was pretty unfortunate. But it just it took me back to my days when I went to the home World Federation it conference here in Australia, I think which is like yeah investing. It’s like 2006. I think a lot of be before I graduated so I missed it wage. Yeah. Yeah. So when was your your graduation 2008 2008? Yeah while I was at Uni it was on I think so. That was a pretty magical time and magic club. Experience for us. There’s a small group of us who are involved as I mentioned before with Rufus and we were just kind of on this trajectory of connecting with some pretty incredible expertise from around the world. We we sponsored sponsored an OT who worked with refugees over in Georgia the country of Georgia and we’d be fundraising events and my husband’s a musician and and we have musician friends. So we put together performances and live music, you know events and things to raise money and we need these big bulk of money and were like, what are we going to do with it? And so we decided to advertise for this scholarship for someone to come to Australia who work directly with refugees off grass roots on the ground, you know in the kind of you know sort of yeah in the field and so we put it out there and we got this amazing incredible birth. I’m to actually amazing incredible OTS because wolf it in the end the World Federation OT decided to chip in money as well. And we were able to sponsor to scholarships for them to come over here to Australia. Yeah, so they came along to the world OT conference in Sydney and we got to meet them. We got to be exchanged so much just make sure and clinical experience and yeah, we developed and forth like some really lovely friendships with these two.

00:15:01 – 00:20:04

I teased from from Georgia and yeah, they flew back home and took the wonderful experience of Australia hear back with them. And yeah, we continue that friendship in that professional relationships are quite some time pretty sure I remember seeing photos I think cuz so I met Clarissa at the state conference and can’t write in dog. 2012 gosh, I reckon that’s when you was she was that article potentially. I’m not sure but that’s that’s where I that’s where I first took over as like a pretty much signed up on the spot cuz she was an invited speaker or a keynote speaker or something at that conference. So like connected with her there and there wasn’t that many members up this end of the country at the time. I think it was only a couple but it it was definitely I think that was that sponsoring was one of the examples she might from memory. She used during a keynote of the different things that sort of do for acid on a new facet achieved. Yeah and also fan. This is even if it’s not like like and the time it wasn’t an area or I’d ever worked in or even considered working in but I’m I’m sold like this is yeah, this is Artie and she speaks about she could sell ice to Eskimos. She speaks about so much passion. So has so much eloquence and birth. Professional just passion and she’s just his wealth of walking knowledge and wisdom. I yeah, I was very very blessed to be able to kind of walk alongside her and work with her as my through the leader. I guess although the founding member the key founding member of roof racks, and yes been a lot of time and close during those years and years. She has inspired me immensely with her leadership. Yeah, very very much connected heart-to-heart connection. But yeah, very Grassroots based. So you’re a green slips the whole ton. So when you first see you said before like you started a green slip. Well you at that hospital right up until recently when you left. Yeah. Yes. So basically my journey has been a so I started as a baby new grad a green slopes Hospital back in 2005 cried heartbroken that I wasn’t able to work with kids, but yep. Obviously life has a plan and I always believed, you know things happen for a reason and I was obviously drawn into that hospital and working in those areas for particular reason. So 2005 baby new grad Greensleeves hospital. I was there for about three years I think and then I spent a good chunk of time. I think it was just over a year and another hospital building a pain management program. So we established just basically from like ground level up totally like this green level position where I was thrown into the mix of creating this pain management department pretty much pain management program Department. You name it from scratch and I went in there and there was I was it there was off the team that was like nursing is no other there was a there was a bit of a rehab multidisciplinary team, but that was it. So I went into this role. Completely blindsided that it was basically me to set up this program and I spent a good you know, chunk of that first page three months going what the hell of a got myself into I was like, yeah coming home sort of in tears and thinking, you know, I’ve if this doesn’t get better in the next few weeks that I’m walking, you know, I did for pregnant, you know pretty quickly. And so that was added added an extra kind of element to the mix because I had terrible morning sickness. I was yeah sick as a dog right up until like my seventh eighth month of my pregnancy, so I’m juggling this management role. For like morning sickness through that hole. It was it was rough. I remember vomiting in the car on the way to work and getting like my hair stuck off to the hospital and then having to kind of like get out of the car and sort of like, you know pretend everything was okay. And I’d also like off in panic attacks as I was like going to the hospital in the car because I was just so I was I was out of my depth I think Brock like I literally I was like twenty what was I I was a baby. I was like Mom 324 trying to tackle this management role. I was the youngest manager there by I think about fifteen years like they were all like in their forties and fifties most of them even like late fifties.

00:20:04 – 00:25:02

So here I am twenty something year old trying to create this program this pain management department from the dead. Level up pregnant sick as a dog, you know watching in the Caribbean world, but guess what? I got through it you made it’s not I made it. Okay, it was okay and that program is still running to today and they developed an adolescent program within the hospital. You know, it’s gone, you know from from a basic kind of like ground level to what it is today. And yeah, I kind of look back and think yeah, hopefully I had something to do with that building that Foundation Fair idea that you did I had to recruit the team and everything like I was thrown into the HR side of things like human resources. I was like having to do the interviews having to call up, you know, so it’s just I basically had to do very much an Eclectic OT put all the different hats on General trades kind of job. Plus I did the clinical. So I was the OT we employed another o t and the team but I was the OT on the ground like working in the program as well as all the other management responsibilities. So so how did you know burn out doing all of that stuff? Well that just kind of leads me into this journey of burnout, right? So I think I was on that trajectory of burned out before I started at at that hospital building and building a pain management program. I think I was probably there with my teenage years. I stepped into some pretty heavy responsibilities leadership roles during my teenage years and high school even a primary school. Actually. I just had this I don’t know if it was It was just this ambitious driven personality that had this look of mellowed a loss of had to have had two in the last, you know, since becoming a mom I think and then going through through different Journeys myself. But yeah back in that day. I literally I would see an opportunity or project and I would just jump in like no no hesitation high standards perfectionistic traits, you know, got to get it right. Otherwise the the world’s going to kind of Crash an end. Yeah. So for me, I I did that right from when I was about ten or eleven years of age like thinking back over the history of my life and I just pushed myself, you know, no matter what was going on in my personal world, and there was lots of intense stuff going on through teenage years through, you know, my older sort of Queens dead. Both juice going on but I just I focused I think it became a little bit my coping mechanism to get through the tough stuff. I would throw myself into my work. I would throw myself into my studies, you know, and that kind of became my distraction that became my focus and because I was kind of when I throw myself back to a project as you know, Brock worked on a few in the background and you know history like I just try myself in a hundred and fifty percent and and I have this very high standards high expectations of myself. So when you bring all that into the mix your kind of like a recipe for disaster and a recipe for Burnout it started in that little bit of a a downhill Slide towards my body just starting to hit its limits and there was a few physical health symptoms that were creeping in that I just kept ignoring and kept pushing aside and kept pushing on through. So yeah, and that’s an interesting thing cuz I think a lot of people often are under this sort of a misconception that burnout is like one thing happened and that’s it. Like it’s too much where in my experience and it sounds like it in yours as well. It’s kind of almost an accumulation can be little things as well. I mean an accumulation of things over a longer period of time like for you if you take one of those elements long way from what was happening, it may have had a completely different thing. Like if you hadn’t have been pregnant at the time or if you hadn’t have had to do say all the HR stuff as well as everything else or if you hadn’t had to do the clinical stuff on top of birth. Like if you take one of those elements away, it could have been a completely different situation completely story but hundred percent.

00:25:02 – 00:30:06

Yeah, totally and I think I thought I was going to add something to that. So I broke are you trying to do cuz I had something amazing and so no lost. It dropped. What was I going to say? So yeah, you’re right. It is an accumulation and there’s multiple elements involved. I think for me my personality has a big thing to do with it. So if I had actually learned to say no wage or if I had actually kind of reduce my standards like, you know with this job that I took on I was in my early twenties, you know, I’m young. I’m kind of like, yeah and Susie Astic I’m a bit naive. I’m ambitious all of that. But I threw myself in and for me to accomplish what it accomplished by the end of that sort of thirteen fourteen months 10th song. I wanted it to be you know, the bee’s knees. I I created two programs. I didn’t just create what I created an inpatient program and and outpatient program. I you know, I made sure that the multidisciplinary team were at the highest most, you know had some beautiful people working for me and working with me. So I wanted to make sure you know, all of that was up to that kind of level and so, you know in those early twenties in those early years. I didn’t know how to say no and I didn’t know how to reduce those standards of myself, you know, it’ll struggle with that sometimes. Yeah. I mean, I do too totally guilty of still struggling with people pleasing and you know, perfectionistic kind of like this idea that something has to be just right choice, you know, I mean I call myself a recovering perfectionist know because like a recovering perfectionist because literally I know when I start to get a birth About something I start to just throw everything in and other things kind of Fall by the wayside. It’s usually my health. I usually sacrifice my health. That’s the first thing that goes and then you know other things, you know, the time with family and relationships and all that sort of stuff. So those sorts of things can start to suffer when you really throw yourself into yeah, they need to to kind of like tunnel vision focus with the projects that you take on. So, when did you know that you’d sort of hit that wall? Gosh, I’ve made I think for me it happened multiple times. So when I was younger, it just happened at a very kind of more manageable level where I could sort of bounced back a little bit quicker, but I remember back in those early days. It will help would start to crumble energy levels would get really low. I wouldn’t be able to sort of cope with day-to-day kind of pressures and normal everyday stuff off. And things would just stop to kind of overwhelm that feeling of overwhelming, you know to me anxiety has been a big big part of my life since long as I can remember so symptoms of anxiety would just escalate through the roof. Yeah to a point where panic attacks, you know, anxiety attacks would start to happen and I would kind of keep this under wraps really well in my twenties and I I was able to kind of fake that kind of what’s the word, you know that confidence in that kind of like, I’m okay. Everything’s okay, and I’ve got got all my shit together. You don’t think it’s going to kind of fall apart. So I was able to really fake it. I guess somebody’s early twenties and and through that younger period of time and bounced back quicker, but yes thinking back definitely there was multiple times in that period where I guess you could say like I dropped the ball like I dropped the sort of birth. And a little and it wasn’t until basically I mean I’d had in D my beautiful first daughter. She’s ten going on eleven next Thursday gosh, so that was how that was. How long ago those horrible morning sickness months were so ten eleven years ago. So I had indeed that was a really beautiful time. I had in D one. I knew I didn’t have to go back to that job. So I was like, yes, that was my ticket out of there. So that was my my my thing. That was just yeah a big relief, but no first and foremost to have this beautiful baby. I’d wanted to be a mom since as long as I can remember falling pregnant with the Indy giving birth to Indie, you know, having my first child having both my daughters, you know, but definitely with your first child, it’s just that little bit extra kind of relief and and in this special moment that you know, get em, Your mom so during that period after I’d had in D was kind of like this beautiful little honeymoon period of like I’m you know, I’m being a mom for the first time.

00:30:06 – 00:35:25

I’m totally invested miss beautiful kind of like period of my life where I’m you know, living out this aspiration and dream of had for a long time. And so that was a really beautiful. Of our lives and then fell pregnant with Zara like probably sooner than what we were expecting as you know, all good things happen things happen when they’re meant to but yeah, so Pregnant was Zara and I don’t think my body had recovered even fully enough for my pregnancy with Indy by the time I’d Fallen pregnant mazara. I was still home health issues, but I was pushing through and I was on this beautiful high of being a mom for the first time and really just feeling you know that I’ve found a little bit of my Niche my groove as a mom. And I started back working at the hospital. Not the management role. I decided that wasn’t for me particularly being a mom off. So I started back I Christ lives hospital just casually, you know, taking our shifts and getting back getting my my foot back in there kind of OT bread-and-butter world and yeah pregnant with Zara and then this is when life gets blurry for me as well. It just gets a little bit hazy cuz there were so many things going on for us, but in a nutshell, I won’t do the long drawn-out story of all the things that happen to us and such a short period of time the basic package was slugged with curve ball after curve ball and the biggest kind of there was a couple of big things but one of the big things was that we lost our business. Period of time where I was super vulnerable, we had a little toddler. I was pregnant with Zara struggling with a few health issues in the background and you know, it was our main source of income that it was, you know, it was quite a successful a little business that we had going and and obviously my husband ran it but I helped out from time to time with the bookkeeping and admin side of things said, so just we were blindsided with the loss of the business and it wasn’t under my circumstances. It was under very ugly circumstances. So it would be kind of a huge stress or for us and that went on for months and months and months of us trying to kind of recoup him. Perhaps. Yeah reclaim how business and have some income off slow and income. Periphery, but then we had some major stuff going like life happens. You know, we lost some family members, you know way too soon. We was sort of having to sort of yeah move through grief. They’re grieving process all over all of that and then my sister who is you know, my closest wage. Let’s say my closest human to me in my life. My bestest friends, you know, she went through a very difficult traumatic birth with her her second baby and this actually happened after this is where it all gets blurry cuz I’d already had Zara. We’re still struggling. We’ve not having an income losing our business all that sort of stuff. And then she was after I’d had saw which was a an amazing Birth, by the way, if you ever if anyone wants to learn about hypnobirth e I’m sure the up your Elly Brock. I’m already well-versed. I’m sure off. No, that’s there anyone out there who wants to know about beautiful calm ways to labor and hypnobirthing contact me get in touch off because my second birth was very even though we were going to add a really pick stressful period of our life in our family at the most magical beautiful labor and birth with her. So that was such a blessing she was a nine pound Rollie Pollie gorgeous little bundle of joy, too. So yeah, she was like four kilograms. But yeah, that’s that’s a big baby and I’m not, you know, I’m quite a small frames person. So for for me to carry her, you know all the way through and then at the end of our natural birth, it was just beautiful magical experience quite a contrast to my first book in D. So, yeah, I got to have the two sides home. Yes, so we had Zara and it was enjoying, you know, this beautiful new life into into our world. But yeah, I I had this there was this money. Well, I remember it was kind of like that whole straw on the camel’s back but just hearing use, you know have little six-week hold a little table things going on in the background for us and then hearing a news my it was a phone call from my mom and she told me that I should be rushed to hospital.

00:35:25 – 00:40:21

So that was kind of like the straw for me and I think that was the moment. We’re all those little accumulated burnout series that are kind of let up to that point. That was the moment that everything just crashed for me my sister and my beautiful nephew got through that experience and wage. My nephew’s growing up as healthy and and gorgeous as ever so very grateful that we move through that that really intense sort of a very traumatic experience for all of us. But yeah Sammy it was kind of just this this shock to the system and I guess you could probably in that moment. I just I still remember the moment that basically my my knees hit the floor. Like I was holding my six week old baby and my knees hit the floor and I remember I felt like home this is it like this is my little breaking point where gosh, how am I going to get back from this? So from that moment, yeah, it took it took about two years just kind of rehabilitate myself back to the land of the living I guess because it claimed mentally emotionally on all those areas. I was just depleted completely depleted. So when you go through long periods of stress off when you go through that chronic accumulative stress halls and even some traumatic experiences within that your you know, your adrenals are completely bombarded with your you know, your your neurotransmitters your biochemistry. Everything is literally taken out and for me that it had gone on for too long and then it just hit that moment was like okay time to to kind of hit rock bottom and then rebuild and replenish and rejuvenate and yeah, that was crazy. Out of the start of my journey to becoming you know, like it was it was it was a long journey. Hm. It’s odd that it always find it interesting because a lot of people again, I think a lot of the time that this sort of topic is talked about it’s talks about like, you know, it’ll be burned out on otey’s off. One of the things that you mentioned other than that job was anything to do with OT and I think that’s an important thing to point out is that this isn’t it’s not an OG thing. It’s not a health-care thing. It’s not a anything thing. It’s a life thing. It’s it’s a life thing. Yeah, it’s I mean, yes, we’re dealing with it because we are oties which is why we’re talking about it here, but God it’s something that The people we work with our managers our family like they’re all going to go through it. They could be a homeless dude somewhere that’s going through burn out because he’s got so many stresses like wage has nothing to do with the profession itself died. And I think it’s important to recognize that all like in helping professions. We probably more at risk. So there’s a higher level of risk of burnout and it doesn’t necessarily mean, you know, like we we humans having this Human Experience and we’re going into office jobs in these helping professions where we have to exert a whole lot of emotional psychological physical energy in our jobs in there now rolls and no T’s yeah just the same as factors just the same as and you know doctors are their stress levels are probably even through the roof. I remember my first client my first client that I had birth. Holistic OT dealing with integrated Wellness was a doctor and this particular doctor was dealing with burnout. So, you know the profession in the health professional field is basically you just more at risk of depletion and burn out and then when you’ve got lights happening around you and you know, there’s face long periods of of time. We’re just shit happens, you know one after another and it’s just like, you know, you can’t sort of catch your breath. You can’t catch a break and it’s in those moments that way it can be kind of that danger sort of Zone and I think that’s what we as health professionals need to be really aware of and kind of kind of have each other’s backs in this area like recognize we are humans coming from these personal worlds that are full of stressors and full of intense stuff and we come into our Hospital places and we come into our Clinic wage.

00:40:21 – 00:45:03

Well School settings or wherever we might be working and we bring all this with us, you know, and there’s this loading effect as a cumulative effect and it could be something that happens really suck at the workplace. You know, it could be just a conversation with a colleague that’s intense or it could be that you’re dealing with someone up on the wards that’s dying from cancer and you log in palliative care and you’re having to work with the family and the intensity of that and that triggers, you know the wounds within you and there’s this concept that I think we need to be aware of empathy fatigue off of you know, what are some other words, you know, there’s burnout there’s depletion. There’s you know being aware of all of this that goes on that affects our physical mental emotional body. Yeah. I think I I do think that as a profession is in a really good place to wage. actually help people with it and and I agree with you like people in the helping profession probably more risk of burning out or probably put in particular compassion fatigue, then, you know people in other professions whatever they want to list them but other professions One thing I’m curious about is cuz it’s I’m as uncomfortable as it is. I’m a big Advocate when I was working clinically of sometimes people have to sit with things and it’s not a matter of us going in a note. He’s a bad at this because we’re too good at other things but where we go in and we want to fix things something’s wrong. We need to fix it. But sometimes there’s a process and sometimes that process is time. How long when you sort of when you first sort of like you’re talking about before like you feel like this. Is it this is that. We’ll yeah. Yeah this thing isn’t it’s not like a yo-yo you don’t just sort of like whoop Rock Bottom bounce back up stairs and I’m speaking from my own personal experience here as well. There’s a period of time where palm yeah. Okay, you hit rock bottom you’re going to sit there for a while and it sucks, but I think that it’s also unnecessary part of the process. Obviously, you don’t want to stay there too long when it gets drawn out then it becomes an issue but I think it gives you a lot of time to start processing what’s happened where you are taking stock of, you know, your life support networks yourself your own personal resources your personal attributes for going to look at Kawa but it gives you that time that space off. Yes. It’s a very uncomfortable space but it’s something that needs to happen. How long for you sir for me when I sort of told my bonus during a previous podcast, but when I sort of hit that bottom bit it was like at the worst of it it was probably a couple of weeks before I sort of even had the capacity to go. Okay, like here’s what I’m going to do. How long how long do you reckon that was for you when you first sort of went from that point where you went like this is it this is the final straw. How long was it before you could start? I guess thinking clear enough dead. To start trying to make a plan or start trying to consciously do something about it a good question. And I think you’re so right about being okay about not being okay and being the uncomfortableness knowing that there’s something incredibly wrong like being in that uncomfortableness is like your Catalyst for change. If you don’t have that very sort of icky uncomfortable. Gosh this kind of rock bottom moment for me. You’re not going to make the changes that are going to create a different trajectory a different progression Way Forward and it’s certainly a journey in a process and I know they said that word journey is so cliche, but it is such a process to work your way from Rock Bottom off. Um to learning how to put yourself back together again in a more resilient strong integrated way and unlearn some of those behaviors. I’m learning some of those habits and patterns that got you there in the first place.

00:45:04 – 00:50:10

So for me personally, like oh gosh that was you know, I had a baby a little baby had a toddler. So for me, it took a lot longer than I had all this stuff going on in my life other responsibilities, you know juggling balls in the air, I guess and we you know, there was an accumulative Financial stress is going on for us as well. So for me personally, it took probably a lot longer than if it was an isolated incident where you didn’t have all that other peripheral stuff going on but yes me it was two years. It was two solid years and I’m talking like a hundred percent committed to myself care package percent committed to changing, you know, an unlearning patterned behaviors that led me to that point changing the way that I responded to stressors in my invoice. Fireman in my external world, you know learning that life happens life doesn’t stop a little proverb or a little saying that I owe quite often quote. I you know with my clients and and I use for myself as we can’t stop the waves, but we can learn how to surf and so teaching those skills of resilience and balance and you know learning how to kind of yeah ride the waves of adversity is a really important skill to have a dog and it’s your it’s your key for Burnout prevention and also burnout recovery. So yeah, what was your cuz it’s going to be different for everyone obviously, but what was your home step one? What was the first thing that you went? Okay. This is what I got to do first. I still remember it. I still remember it clear as a day like khong As mud clear slime no clear as Crystal not clear. Asthma so clear as Crystal. I still remember there was like actually there was two things that happened one thing was that I had a massive panic attack in the middle of the night. It was actually in the early hours of the morning. I just spread breastfed Zara put her back to sleep. I was getting settled in and thinking yes, you know, I try and get some some some sleep and I totally got a worst panic attack anxiety attack that I’ve experienced and probably have never experienced again since that time and it was literally feeling like as the kind of name says like I was being attacked and I felt like death was at my door and it was scary as hell and I remember thinking I never want to go through this again. I never want to come back. Experiences depth of kind of Terror and being so scared in all my life and it was you know, it was early hours of the morning. It’s dark, you know, both kids were asleep and it was that moment where I was like I have got to do something about this and the very next day. I remember thinking I remember doing a little bit of yoga meditation type of stuff when I’m pregnant with the indeed to get through that intense time, but I just did it like fire a DVD I throw on a DVD and I just did some really kind of yeah casual itna sort of. Yeah Yoga Yoga belly. I think it was called and I just remembering the next day thinking God of gotta get back to that of gotta learn how to find that calm State again, and I jumped on my laptop and I on my phone at the time. I can’t remember it was stolen laptop that I remember Googling yoga in my local paper. Real so I put myself and I’ll put yoga and the first thing that came up was this yoga class called yoga of the heart and I thought beautiful bags. There it is. That’s why you know, that’s my ticket to rehabilitating myself out of this space and I was still you know, I still had a little Barber thought how could get two classes. I’m not on cam going to make it work and I just decided you know, I’ve I fed Zara before I left I booked in to go it was it was on a Tuesday night. I still remember was a Tuesday night was down the road and really convenient. So I left Bob with my husband. Bundled myself up. I don’t even think I had a yoga mat. But the teacher said don’t worry just turn up and I turned up and I I went into the little local kind of like this little Community setting off yoga of the hot with the beautiful Jackie. I still remember beautiful Jackie the teacher and I did this yoga class and it was about a 60-minute class and not the end.

00:50:10 – 00:55:01

They do this relaxation calls shavasana. I don’t know if you’ve heard shavasana. So it’s this deep deep rest and it happens at the end of the month the class. So I did all the synopsis which is what you call the postures and all the movements and I’m like, well this feels okay. My body was still in a high state of alert. There was still so much anxiety rattling around and by the end of the class. I just thought gosh, I still felt anxious. I still feel and I was anxious to be there with people around me as well. Like I had this Agora phobia that I developed off. Didn’t want to get out of the house. I was isolating myself completely even just to talk to someone else was anxiety-provoking for me. So to go to this class was, you know, big step to actually do the class and get through. It was my next big step. I got to the end. We started shavasana. I never done two of us and I like got only ever done the postures of positions and some breathing work took. This is where we lay down on the mats. And basically you do nothing and I’m like gosh, okay, this is different Amazing Life space now, I will teach you some of us know what day you can come to one of my classes one of these days down the track and that’s good social life. So you lie down on a mat and basically the teacher walks you through this deep restful process. And I remember the for the first time in years, like this wasn’t just months. This was years and years for the first time. I got this little window where I felt Stillness. I felt this relaxation kind of like switch flick on and it was only for like Iraq, I would say maybe 3 seconds at the most but I was hooked like that 3 seconds hooked me in and I was like, this is what I mean. I want more of that. I don’t want just three seconds. Like I want 30 seconds. I want a minute. I want you know, so yeah that first yoga class. That was my first-ever yoga class went to and I never looked back. So that was that was it that was the moment and Germany and Very much further and you know, there was so much more involved than just yoga in my Rehabilitation. But yeah that that was a starting point for me. So what other stuff did you do actually so that was something you added in. Was there anything that so I know for me one of my first steps was essentially getting rid of a heap of stuff out of my life wage material stuff. Well, that was yeah. Well that was part of it. But also like I took a step back from heaps. It was like OT related stuff at the time the project projects and all that sort of stuff like it took a step back from heaps of that because some of the the best advice still I have ever got in that situation was from a really good friend of mine. And she said you have for the time being it’s going to suck but for the time being you have to be selfish and for someone who works in this kind of profession, that’s a weird like even song But hearing it you like doesn’t do I have to doesn’t sound right like it sounds like you’re going to be a bad person if you do that or something, but once I was when you’re in that headspace wage, it makes sense because you spend so much time like at the time like it’s working with clients and you stressing you out that and you stressing about you know, making sure that the workplace is happy with your documentation and not doing your right shifts and then you’ve got your home life and everything that’s going on there. And if you actually sit and reflect 90% of the stuff I was doing I was doing for other people took all of those. He projects a lot of online staff networking stuff Community Development stuff was all for other people. So getting or hearing that advice. Oh, okay. Maybe I really do at the time. I didn’t really have any sort of eyes didn’t really have any even like hobbies that were just for me like I was dead. Would do things to help other people or overdo things because that’s what my mates were doing or something like that. But I never really had anything like that. I did this is just for me. So like when I took my first steps was not necessarily getting rid of it by taking a step back from a lot of that stuff to give me the space to start exploring some other stuff.

00:55:01 – 01:00:01

That was it just for me. So it was totally do you have any like a similar thing with that like was this stuff that you had to take a step back from or get rid of from a life in order to I guess start this sort of Rehabilitation kind of process. I think, you know, it’s in our conditioning right? We taught them are not taught from when we’re little to look after ourselves. We’re not taught to prioritize self-care we and particularly when you know, the personality of being a helper job. Being someone who gets satisfaction out of you know service and being in a role where you get to yeah assist other people to have any meaningful sort of Rich allies we tend to use that as our go to as our Focus. So not only are we not taught to take care of ourselves when our personality is driven to be there for everyone else and and to kind of immerse ourselves in yeah, the people and the projects and the the things that that are observers we forget about what’s important to us. And definitely I think as occupational therapist, you know, there’s that element of knowing the importance of meaningful engagement in the things that light you up that a meaningful to you that connect with you heart soul mind Spirit, you know off Going to uplift you and and make you feel kind of alive from the inside out, you know, we passionate about encouraging others to wage in that but we’re pretty bad at making sure we do it ourselves, you know, practicing what we preach and I think you know as a mom I’m speaking as an occupational therapist and a mom. We tend to just be focused on you know, the kids are children. What are they need? Also? What about clients need what what’s needs to be given there and a dog is giving giving you know, and and you become like your cup sort of starts to kind of become very empty your fuel tank gets, you know, very low birth or coming back to your question of you know, how do we Do you personally like as a mum? I think first and foremost it had to be a matter of self-care became my priority and then from them as I started to sort of become a little stronger physically my health started to kind of balance out. I I was able to for me, you know how you said it was getting rid of stuff thought it was kind of like getting rid of in a baggage for lots of inner baggage and unlearning some of those behaviors like what you said, you know, the constantly looking generally of where to give yourself and what to do. So for me, it was totally like taking that heavy backpack off and these taught time, you know, these are deeply ingrained habits and when you’ve gone through trauma when you’ve gone through, you know intense stuff and there’s stuff that I know I was still carrying from my childhood. There was Heavy baggage. Always still still was holding onto subconsciously, you know, this wasn’t a conscious decision that I made but you know being being an empath which you know, most thoughts tend to be this is why we love helping people because we have that very empathic quality. So you tend to take on other people’s baggage as well. So healthy boundaries is what I had to life broke like literally. Yeah letting go of the inner baggage and then creating these healthy boundaries so that I wasn’t taking on all this external stuff so much anymore and then that created space so when you get rid of stuff you create space and then as space started to be created in my inner World, it also started to be created in my outer world and then I was able to start engaging in the stuff that really let me up me feel good made me feel purposeful and engaged and I think you know, yep. So it’s kind of getting into the you know projects that I love and that make me feel like I’m making a difference that they remember occupations that let me up most life. You know again, yes, it was a focus to be of service and how how I can make the the world a better place kind of like this big, you know Vision that you know you tend to have wage.

01:00:01 – 01:05:03

Well I tend to since I was little but how can I make the world a better place? This made me feel good if I could immerse myself in those sort of projects and I think that’s you know to me creating my website creating my private practice. I’m getting into learning more about how to look after the mind and the body they become the occupations that song became my healing impetus, but also became My meaningful way of engaging, you know with the things that that matter the most to me. I’m going to throw an alternative argument at you two something. Yeah said before, so you talked about how you didn’t feel like we get taught how to look after ourselves and I disagree with that but only on a minor point in that I think we do but we get taught wrong. Yes. I think I think that a lot of the time and it’s you know, do we think back to the ads and stuff that are on T when we were kids and we love God even now is Artis. We can look at like previous Health models and that kind of thing and up until you know, we sort of probably got to adulthood looking after yourself song about eating healthy and exercise and that was it. You’re right and those even I’m trying to think there was a yeah something the big meal things that were like looking after yourself. It’s yeah, it’s any way home. Yes, but yeah, like there’s so many like you can remember ads from when we were kids that fit that mold completely that that was it like and it was very much now thinking about like the previous Health months Health then was sort of the absence of illness or disease which is now what we know it’s not just that but back then that’s what even if it wasn’t that’s what a health department we’re looking at it as that’s what a lot of marketing companies and you know, that kind of thing that we’re actually selling US Health cuz that’s health is a a commodity whether you like that idea or not people are selling Health, whether it’s with, you know, essential oils or cereal like it doesn’t matter like everyone is selling healthy. We’re selling Health as oties. We’re marketing ourselves to sell this Brand, New Jersey. Holistic health and yeah, okay, it sounds unsexy to say that but it’s true. That’s what we’re doing whether we work in public health or Private health or whatever it is. We’re still marketing it to sell it. It’s a commodity and that’s how it’s been viewed over the longest time. I think. Why I say it’s been told wrong is because it was literally only eating exercise and that was the only two things there was but there’s so much more to it like you touched on it before like there’s connection and creativity and all these other aspects to being healthy to being you know, having good. Well being that that’s the bit that we were never taught absolutely wage. I think that’s where my passion came in really strong after my personal experiences cuz it’s like hang on a minute. You know, I’m I’m trying to you know, move my body and I’m trying to eat. Well, you know, but that’s not enough. What what what else? You know, what else can I add to the mix in what I found what was so beautiful on a journey. I’m so grateful of the occupational therapy framework for this. Was that seeing the person as a multi-dimensional X Factor factorial You know human that has you know, we not just moving eating robots. You know, we have these very rich life is very in-depth most of us. Yes, we have these very rich very deep, you know, International emotional psychological and even spiritual parts that make us up as humans and health encompasses all of that and for me when I went through my life, I you know, let’s call a breakdown breakthrough burnout moment it it you know, there was it wasn’t just physically that something was going on with me, you know, it was emotionally psychologically socially, you know, I wasn’t I didn’t want to get out of the house because I was so consumed with my physical kind of sim. Was an illness and my mental health like there was that Agra phobia that I developed and then there’s the spiritual as well, you know, like the inner Spirit what lifts your spirit nothing was lifting my spirit at that point in time. I was in pure survival mode and there was nothing that that inner aliveness that in a spirit was yeah, it was depleted.

01:05:03 – 01:10:06

It was disconnected is probably a better word. So absolutely we’re not taught to look after our emotional health and mental health our spiritual health our social connections, you know, so yeah this this was New Territory for me and I think like for me one of the biggest things again something that was never really taught as a Concepts was having a creative Outlet cuz I never even sort of realized that that was something that I needed until I needed it off. Yeah, like loving senior created that less a lot of the projects that I did. Yeah. Okay for some people like I did a lot of like web design and that kind of stuff. I’ve had thoughts for years and for different things and different projects and then I had you know, Facebook communities like m h r o t and that kind of stuff but yes, they’re very useful resources. And yes, they serve our purpose but the meaning wasn’t there even though for some people I’d guarantee some people find I know some people that will find like designing web pages off of like a creative outlet for me, even though I can be doing exactly the same thing as them the meaning was different like it wasn’t a creative thing for me. It was more of a purposeful like I need to do this because it’ll lead to something else. It was our another purpose and I the sitting back and creating that space like we talked about earlier to again for me to age. It’s selfish and find things that like Hobbies just for me tapping into and experimenting a little bit with some sort of like creative things like a little bit of painting and random soft still got paintings hanging up in the house that I did. Yeah sauce, you show me those. That’s the you know, and yes. Okay, that’s not something that off of stock but I did it and it felt good knowing. Okay, so it’s not necessarily the painting that felt good in that instance. It was the fact that I was creating something. I was expressing myself. I was trying something new and I’ve done a couple different things since then my latest thing that’s the same before is like photography and I’m really sort of getting into that and change. Not just the actual photographing but even editing to create moods with different photos and scenes and that kind of stuff and I I’m finding that at the moment to be a really really powerful way for my creativity to show and I’ve had people my wife doesn’t like half the photos I take she’s she’s much she’s the she’s the type of person that wants to photo to look exactly like it did when you were looking at it with your eyeballs and on the kind of person that wants to create a mood. So I’ll you know make things darker or desaturate pictures or you know, make them black and white or whatever it is. So again the same thing like that’s the same occupation but two very different meanings. She looks at a very much as a I don’t know I guess a form of documentation like she’s documenting what happened like what’s in front of you you want to yeah a clear picture almost like a, you know, a physical memory. Whereas I’m trying to log Like literally I’m trying to create a mood from a scene or from a picture or from a something that you know wasn’t normally they’re like I’ve taken photos of some weird damn and created something sort of dark and Moody out of it taking photos of a fence like in front of anything and just so I try to create something from it. So for me, that’s just at present. Anyway, that’s my current sort of creative outlet and I’m thoroughly enjoying it. But whether it’s going to be that way forever, you know, whether it’s going to be something that I do for the rest of my life, maybe maybe not and that’s the beauty of creativity. There’s no rules and that’s I think that’s the thing is again. I’m not doing it I said this people including people very close to me the title like what I’m doing and that’s okay because I’m not doing it for them. I’m doing it for me and it’s serving its purpose for me. Yeah and and off. Creativity to serve its purpose is through the process not the outcome, you know, it’s that exploratory process. It’s you know, that helps light up that part of your brain that really connected to our emotions. Actually. So creativity is is is an Avenue for emotional expression as well. So you’re literally able to express, you know, your inner worlds in you know, something that you yourself can look at and see the beauty in that and see the you know, uniqueness so long.

01:10:06 – 01:15:15

Yeah, it’s a very cool. What else do you think what other things have you used? Yo, you did some meditation and stuff. You spoke about earlier what other things did you off even experiment stuff? That didn’t stick. Is there anything that didn’t stick that you tried during your sort of rehab type process? Of course, that’s a good question. That makes me think. Thinking is good, right? Oh, gosh. What did I try? That didn’t stick, you know, there was points where I tried to go a little bit gung-ho with my physical kind of fitness and it was probably a little too soon to push myself. So I think you know any guidance or advice on anyone who’s you know, wanting to replenish wanting to recover from depletion of some sort, you know, don’t try and push yourself to physically too soon too hard, you know, so when you bring that kind of very driven ambitious personality into recovery or into personal development or into creativity, for example, you’ve got off Blowouts because it’s not you know, you’re not designed to kind of pushed to your limits when there’s other stuff going on. So to take a bit more of a gentle approach. So yeah some things that I have to kind of do away with was like maybe going for a big run. You know, that was just too much for my system or you know, I think I even experimented going to the gym a little bit more again. That was it just didn’t kind of fit and work and it made me feel more exhausted more depleted. I think I don’t think there has to be I think you can apply that same theater anything. I don’t think it has to be just the physical stuff like even the the mental stuff like if you like to dive in head-first then there’s a good chance you’re going to get a cat. This is too much of that like it and not go any further words if you kind of ease into it. Then you’ve got a better chance of it taking you’re going to you know, pick up a lot more of the Nuance of the whatever the occupation itself is and you probably going to get more out of it. Yes, I did that too like mental kind of Fitness C type of stuff mental like I yeah, I would go gung-ho and I push and I’d had blow off even with emotional healing, you know, like healing from trauma or healing from emotional some things that you’ve that have gone on for Europe presently going on for you. It’s not a process that you can force. It’s definitely a process that you need to kind of easy to write or wave. Yes, so and it’s funny that brings me into kind of like the next phase of my recovery was this surrender Compass concept of surrendering into surrendering into the dog. Rose sets rather than pushing controlling trying to drive it like pushing Boulders up hills. You know, I did that for probably the first thirty years of my life pushed off push all those up hills, you know, and yeah, there’s so like working with the young people that I work with now so many with that type of personality that’s their kind of programmed habits of just it has to be really hard really gung-ho and if you’re not pushing yourself to your limits, you’re not going to get improvements you’re not get outcomes. But yeah, there’s definitely this beautiful kind of like dance this balance of of you know, what did I took the sale of a day of this discipline and surrender this beautiful kind of dance between the two and then you can to The Sweet Spot is Flo birth. Whatever you might be putting yourself into whether it’s recovery from burnout, whether it’s a recovery from a chronic illness, whether it’s anxiety depression mental health, you know challenges that might be going on for you. If you can work this beautiful discipline surrender balance this dance and find that sweet spot that sweet spot of slow. That’s when the magic happens. That’s when the healing happens. So if I can encourage that on anyone’s Journey, you know, yeah and disinfectant isn’t what else do I read the other day it said, you know, self-discipline is the highest ACT of self-love and I loved that song self-discipline is the highest ACT of self-love.

01:15:15 – 01:20:05

So if we can bring that element of self-care in all aspects that what make us human emotional psychological wage Cool spiritual social bringing in that element of self-care self-love through our discipline processes in our discipline so steps but not doing with doing it with this lovely kind of like, yeah less force and more surrendering into that process. We get this flow. We get this this healing process that can happen. I think one of the interesting things that’s happened sort of practice lives in the Los. It’s probably not even that long probably in the last maybe five years wage is I think previously Burnett was one of those things where you like you burn out and then you get better from it. Whereas I think it’s almost getting more airtime. Now where people are like, how can I prevent it and I think one of the good things is why personally think it’s it’s hard to get your head around what it’s like unless you’ve been there and that goes for anything mental illness physical home. Anything like that, but that doesn’t mean that you can’t, you know prevent yourself from burning out without actually burning out like you don’t have to walk completely burnt out in order to change your life and look after yourself better. Absolutely. And that is certainly I guess the teaching that I want to put across and and the clients that I still see now and then I’ve seen over the years is yeah, you don’t have to hit rock bottom home to work out better ways to care for your your mind and your body and and you know, your mental health certainly prevention is definitely odd Focus that should really be brought in more and more into the workplace and certainly, you know as young people going through High School. And going through toastery studies. You know, how do we help and support them to ensure that they don’t follow that path towards yeah depletion and burnout home. So yeah prevention is Yeah, for sure. So if for people that well, I mean there might be people listening to might be sort of approaching this this burnout level or they might be people that are you know going. Oh crap. I don’t want that to happen to me. And I think I like I know I tell my story as a cautionary tale of please don’t let me get this level. But what what are some things you think just anyone can start looking at to try and not even looking at Burnet just be dead get more well-being just be better get more. Well, let’s put that as a little that’s what we can how to get wealthy off mileage, but unlock it love it. So, how can we get more well-being? I guess essentially. Oh gosh recognize. Well first and foremost thought knowing when to seek out help knowing when to reach out knowing when to basically put your hand up and say I need a need a little extra help here. I need someone to talk to I need you know guidance support or whatever. It might be and sometimes we don’t even know. How to do that so if we can encourage those around us we can encourage either, you know loved ones family members people that we work with our colleagues that you know, it’s okay to not be okay and it’s okay to reach out and ask for help and this goes with you know, whatever might be going on in someone’s life. Whether it’s just, you know, struggling struggling with your own mental health struggling with personal challenges, you know in your personal life, whether it’s struggling with things at work just to talk about it and to reach out I think is a really important first step and giving others permission and almost like a really gentle kind of nurturing knowledge in that direction is really important. And then also recognizing that yeah, like what we were sort of saying at the beginning that we are.

01:20:06 – 01:25:01

These you know humans that have multiple needs, you know, we’re not just robots. We’re not just machines that need to be moved and need to be fed off. There’s just so much more to us and recognizing, you know, whether it’s burnout prevention whether it’s recovery, whether it’s just what was it off to get good well being able to get more well being, you know, whatever it might be recognizing that we need to look after our physical mental emotional and even our spiritual well-being and what that looks like for for everyone is unique and different because we all have different histories, you know men and women are quite different, you know different personality types, you know, as I said before some people might love going to the gym four days a week and that’s their stress release and them Really good about it. And you know, it’s their go to go to for me. It’s not I need more nourishing nurturing kind of more flowing sort of activities in my life. Yoga, like a gentle kind of brisk walk somewhere rather than you know, a full-on run. You know, you’ve got to work out. What suits you what fits right in with patient some people go. Oh gosh, you know meditation. That’s not for me. I can’t meditate. What does it even mean but you know, there’s all different forms and you’ve just got to you know, do your research. Look what’s available check in with someone who has a bit of a you know, multi-dimensional skill set of tools that can show you different different things so that you can utilize but yeah different breathing techniques different Focus techniques different kind of embodied practices. You’ve got to work out what works for you. So yeah, and on an emotional level, you know, some people are very good at expressing their emotions. Some people need a little bit of extra help and a little bit of encouragement and just you know, working out what it is that works for you and trying to seek out the right supports to help you with that. I think I think one of the things that’s really important job to touch on a little bit but not directly is that the the process going from, you know, even if you do end up completely burning out so hitting rock bottom and then dragging yourself out of that hole for lack of a better term. It’s not linear and you you’re going to take steps backwards during that process as well. Like I was saying before like this stuff that I tried and yes, it wasn’t a huge step back with the stuff that I tried and I went oh, this sucks like this, you know, I don’t like this at all, and so I’ll page. Up that hook and try something else. There’s going to be times when like life doesn’t stop that’s the other thing is while you’re doing all this life keeps going. So there’s going to be a normal crap that happens in people’s lives that still happen while you’re sort of dragging yourself out of a burnout phase and that’s okay. It’s okay to kneel be okay, like it’s okay to take that step back. I always like I used to use a lot of solution-focused brief Intervention when I was working mental health as long as you’re pointing or aiming to try and always point in that positive direction. That’s all anyone can ask of you at that point in time. So, you know strong strong. That’s okay. We’re taking an asteroid. We adjust we adapt we keep trying to move forward. Yes. We’re moving forward from a different point than we were at before but we still try and move for a job. Like that’s that’s all anyone. That’s the meaning of life as I keep telling my students the meaning of life is to constantly improve. So whether you’re at rock bottom or your absolute top of your game, the aim is to still constantly improve. No one sort of gets to the top and goes that’s it. I’m done. You don’t see like say Rodger Federer or something hits number one in the world and he’s like, oh, that’s it. I’ve done it and I’m finished now off as good as I’m ever going to get like that’s not how we as humans work. So it’s okay to take a step back, you know, and it’s okay to be in a holding pattern sometimes too. You know, like I think I think when you’ve got that personality of constant self-improvement, you can beat yourself up and be really hard on yourself when you feel like you’re not progressing. So sometimes even giving yourself permission to go. It’s okay to be dog paddling right now.

01:25:01 – 01:29:29

It’s okay to be in a holding pattern, but think this will change. So pass and we going to work on strategies and look at what we can bring into the mix to help support you through this and it’s moving like helping people move out of that survival mode into thriving mode. I think it’s a really key point, but it’s okay, you know to be stuck for a little while, but we’re going to we’re going to make sure that that doesn’t happen for too long. I love it. I love it. If people want to look you up where can they find you off gosh, good question. I’m in the throes of getting a new little site set up, but that might be a little way in this picture. But if people people can look at my original website at the moment, so this is something I developed over a number of years. It’s a bit of a labor of love and there’s a few things. Said I’ve got in there that I quite informative. So if you want to jump on it’s just like it so it’s just my name. And and yeah, I can find out a little bit more about me and my story and my services and a little bit more about my journey on their taxes and stuff on there as well as as resource pack ta stuff on there as well. Oh, gosh, I’m not sure if no, there’s no audio yet. I do have a YouTube channel that is just kind of starting to kind of build off. I’m doing some meditation little met at many meditation series at the moment where I’m just putting something really simple and you know easy to put in your day-to-day kind of routines up off. So there are some recordings on my YouTube channel, which I think you can get two by my website. But anyway, just Google my name, I’ll put a blanket put the link in the show notes. People will find me dead. You know, if you do want to reach out and get in contact with me, I am open for questions. I’m very approachable. There’s a there’s an email on my own website. So I feel free to yeah the time the Jets showing up in your life, then definitely shoot her an email. Sean has to happen off three times and you act on it. No hesitation meant to be Universal telling you you have to that is the message is for the universe. Totally pointing pointing you in the right direction. Awesome. Thank you so much. We’ve I’ve been wanting to bring you on here forever as you know, and we’ve we’ve we’ve taken our time and he’s back into it, and we finally wrangled you on here, so I’m stoked. So thanks for finally agreeing to come and have a conversation with me handle. I just say Brock. Thank you. Inviting me and thank you for being patient as I kind of Traverse the last little while to jump on your podcast, but I believe in that work I believe in you and I think what you’re doing, you know, you create creating those little Ripple effects and planting those seeds, which is an important. It’s an important work to be going. So thank you for inviting me to be a part of that and yeah more than welcome more than welcome off.